Bismillah Rahman Raheem wal Hamdulilah Rabbil Alameen, was Salat was Salam ala Rasoola al Kareem, maa baad:
Salam Alaykum:
After studying your very lengthy questions and comparing them to each other, I came to the conclusion that you may be trying to 'run one by me...' You see, I am just a plain old Texas 'good ole boy.'
And so I talk in pretty direct terms without holding back any punches, you know what I mean, neighbor?
So, you have really come up with some good stuff and it sure does deserve some good stuff right back to you, brother.
As regards your very good questions:
They are most common today and certainly are in need of a definitive answer.
I pray to Allah that He allow me to share with you the results of the same search which I personally had to make to satisfy myself 10 years ago.
Incidentally, the work that I have done is accumulated on our web site at:
http://www.TodayIslam.com/hadeeth.htm
And as your comments about the 'shiite' and 'sunni' sects at the end of your 'questions', I recommend another page to you to study:
http://www.TodayIslam.com/whichgroups.htm
And if you still are having difficulty arranging everything in your mind, try this link and really give it a good going over:
http://www.TodayIslam.com/everything/hadeeth.htm
Finally, if you read all of the answers and references provided and still "Don't get it..." Well, don't email me back right away. You really need to pray to Allah heavy about it for a month or two. Ya know wa I mean neighbor?
Allah Guide you and me to all Truth, ameen.
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First of all, some of your questions contain statements which are not correct.
If you take that into consideration, it will be of great help, inshallah.
So, I will again list your questions with some comments and then some references for you to check out, inshallah.
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Your said:
I follow the Quran because for me it is the scripture of my religion with proven authenticity -proven by both its preservation process and also its self proclamations found in certain suras.
----- The Quran specifically orders us to follow the hadeeths. Therefore, if we claim to follow the Quran, we also must follow the hadeeth.----------
ref:
http://www.TodayIslam.com/everything/hadeeth.htm
http://www.TodayIslam.com/fiqh.htm
(please read entire work for the part regarding the hadeeths -- this could take a few days by the way)
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My dilemma is with the additional sources called the Hadith or Ahadith.
--------- hadeeth means one, ahadeeth means plural ----------
These represent the second source for the Muslim faith and most Muslims place them with equal reverence to the Quran.
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Allah places them alongside the Quran and Muslim SCHOLARS from the generations immediately following the Blessed Prophet, peace be upon him, have preserved and explained them to us.
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- If I apply the same thought processes to verify these then I am presented with the following difficulties.
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If you apply YOUR thought processes to verify these, then you are saying that you are a scholar of Islam and that is very heavy. I personally, am only a student of knowledge and would never begin to "apply my thought process" to what Allah has clearly stated in anyway other than the way that His Messenger clarified it. This can be a major source of misguidance and cause a person to go way off on the deep end..
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- Mohammed (pbuh) was said to have prevented people from writing his own utterances lest they be confused with Quranic revelation.
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Correct. But did you know that was only to certain people, while at the same time there were several who did continue to write down (with his approval) what he said and did? Also that Abu Bakr, radiallaho anho, tore up many of those when he heard the hadeeth of the prophet saying that if anyone were to attribute to him something that he did not say, that person could then reserve his (or her) seat in the Fire of Hell?
And people of those times had tremendous memories and they did preserve the Quran completely in their hearts as well as many hadeeth. These were memorized and passed down right alongside the Quran by trusty narrators.
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- They were not compiled until almost two centuries after the Mohammed (pbuh) died.
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As regards your reference to 200 years afterward... I don't know what you are reading but it is baseless.
Imam Abu Hanifah, Rahmatulah Alayhi, was born less than 75 years after Hijjrah date. So, that is that mean the prophet, peace be upon him, had passed away lest than 60 years before that. Abu Hanifah, Rahmatulah Alayhi, is one of the greatest and most respected of all scholars in Islam. Today hundreds of millions of Muslims follow the very same hadeeths which the Imam relied on to develop his understanding and teaching of Islam.
Next came our beloved and highly respect scholar of Islam, Imam Malik, Rahmatulah Alayhi, (Imam of Medina, 85 years after prophet, peace be upon him). Imam Malik, Rahmatulah Alayhi, was a friend of Abu Hanifah, Rahmatulah Alayhi, and even travelled to him for discussions on many issues. He wrote Al Muwatta, which is still available today in the same original form and it is based on correct hadeeth of the prophet, peace be upon him, and it includes references.
Then came the studen of Imam Malik, Muhammad Ibn Idrees As-Shafee, Rahmatulah Alayhi, from Mecca (b. 150 A.H.). Imam Shafee, Rahmatulah Alayhi, also has a famous work in Islam which has been preserved and revered by scholars ever since his time.
Another great scholar came during the lifetime of Imam Shafee, Rahmatulah Alayhi, from his own city of Mecca, named Abu Abdullah Ahmad bin Hanbal, Rahmatulah Alayhi. His works were also based on the teachings (hadeeth) of the prophet, peace be upon him, and the school of Hanbali Fiqh is probably the best known in the Arab world today.
And there are many other scholars who knew the prophet, peace be upon him, and lived long after the prophet, peace be upon him, that passed on very correct hadeeths (Ibn 'Umar; Ibn Abbas; Ayesha; Ibn Mas'ood and others), May Allah be please with them all, ameen.
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- They have many different narrators as sources.
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If two or more people witness the same event and report on it, wouldn't that add strength to the authenticity?
How is that a detraction in your mind?
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- None of the narrators could have seen the prophet.
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In fact this is a requirement for it to be a correct hadeeth. The original narrator must have these conditions:
1.) been a Muslim at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him
2.) Saw the prophet, peace be upon him
3.) been know for his/her memory
4.) " " " " " integrity & honesty and trustworthiness
5.) If they say that they "heard" or "he said" then they must have actually been there to hear it.
6.) died as a Muslim
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- A few hadith contradict the Quran.
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Name one!
(it was right about in here that I got the feeling that you are 'pullin' my leg' ya know?)
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- They glorify Mohammed (pbuh) only.
The Quran tells us not to make any distinction between messengers.
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(OK. Now I'm pretty sure that either you are playing around with me, or else you are not the Muslim that you claim to be)
Where did you get that?
First of all, look to the Quran, if you have any doubt whatsoever, read how many times the name of "Muhammad", peace be upon him, appears in the Quran. You can use our website to check it out. Go to:
http://www.TodayIslam.com/everything/quran.htm
And then in the Word Search box, enter the word: muhammad
You will find:
Searching for the word "muhammad". The word appears in 4 verses.
3.144 Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many were the a messengers that passed away before him. Is it that if he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. But Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
33.40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
47.2 But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
48.29 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taur�t; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
OK. Did you get the count? FOUR (4) times.
How about Abraham?
Searching for the word "abraham". The word appears in 69 verses.
And Moses?
Searching for the word "moses". The word appears in 167 verses
And Jesus? Searching for the word "Jesus". The word appears in 25 verses.
Searching for the word "Jesus". The word appears in 25 verses. (28 if you count his 'kunyah' or name given as 'The Son of Mary')
And Noah got:
"Noah". The word appears in 47 verses.
Even Jonah got:
Searching for the word "Jonah". The word appears in 4 verses. The same as prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
How about the many wonderful hadeeths of all of the prophets, peace be upon all of them? Jesus is mentioned so many times that you can find time to count them all....
But if you would like to try here are a few:
The query search for the word [Jesus] generated the following matches:
Complete Sahih Bukhari
001.003.097 001.008.345 003.034.425 003.043.656 004.054.429 004.054.462 004.054.506 004.055.568 004.055.607 004.055.608 004.055.640 004.055.644 004.055.645 004.055.647 004.055.648 004.055.649 004.055.650 004.055.651 004.055.652 004.055.653 004.055.655 004.055.656 004.055.657 004.055.658 005.058.227 005.058.284 006.060.003 006.060.105 006.060.149 006.060.150 006.060.236 006.060.238 006.060.239 006.060.264 007.063.209 008.076.533 008.076.570 008.082.817 009.093.507 009.093.532v 009.093.601
Complete Sahih Muslim
001.0293 001.0313 001.0314 001.0316 001.0317 001.0321 001.0322 001.0325 001.0328 001.0352 001.0373 001.0377 001.0378 001.0380 001.0397 004.0918 007.2877 025.5326 030.5834 030.5835 030.5836 030.5840 033.6429 041.6924 041.6931 041.6932 041.6933 041.6934 041.7015 041.7023
Would you like the thousands of times Moses, Ibrahim, David, Solomon, Noah, Yaqub, Israel, Adam and so on are all mentioned...?
No problem if you want me to do that for you!
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- They were selected whilst others were rejected for inferior line of transmission and possible political influences such as rivalries between early Muslim tribes.
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This statement immediately indicates that someone is calling someone a liar.
Whoever makes such a statement must first bring a proof of the other one having lied or been known to lie. And at the same time that person comes under the scrutiny of his/her own character and whether or not he/she has lied or been known to lie. Allah warns on this subject in Surah Hujjarat (49) and other places in the Holy Quran....
Additionally, the reference here in this question immediately negates an earlier statement that claims nothing was recorded until 200 years later. If the 'early tribes' after the prophet, peace be upon him, had the liars or fabricators, then the ahadeeths they mentioned were from their time. True or false?
So, someone is trying to poison your drinking water neighbor.
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- Why is something as important as the declaration of faith not found in the Quran, but in the Hadith instead (The Quran does not say La-illaha-illalaha, "Muhammadan-Rasullalahu".) ?
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Allah the Almighty, does in fact bear witness in the Quran to the Shahadah. Have you not read it many times? ---------------
Example: read 63:1; 10:90; 5:73; 3:62, etc.
- If the Ahadith are authentic than where does God say that He will guarantee
to preserve them (this claim is only for the Quran)?
------- are you trying to convince yourself? If Allah orders you to
obey His messenger, peace be upon him, (which he did many times in the Quran)
then how you gonna do that and you can't find any hadeeths? ----------
- Why the hadith of the Shiite sect less valid than the hadith of Sunni sects?
------------ Who said anything about "shiite" or "sunni"? Not me. That
is coming from your side.
Hadeeths are not based on the collector... they are based on the narrators.
And again if you said that the followers of Ali collected hadeeths, many of
them were the compainons of the prophet, and all of them were in fact 'Tabee'
or companions of a companion (Ali, radiallahu anho). So this blows away the
earlier idea you had about the 200 years passing before being collected...
(are you sure your not trying to 'pull my leg'?)
As regards the comment of the authenticity, there is a book held up by the
Shiites today called "Al Kafi" and it means "Sufficient" or "Enough For Us."
There are differences between different copies of it, similar to the
differences in the versions of the Bible. So, you better go ask them how they
resolve that problem. -------
I highly recommend that you visit our web page on this subject in detail. We
are linked to over 4,000 data bases around the world including many
universities and organizations for the purpose of collecting and classifying
information on Islam, particularlly hadeeth. So, take a few weeks off from
work and do yourself a big favor; get a FREE education in what Islam is
really all about, inshallah.
http://www.TodayIslam.com/everything/hadeeth.htm
Allah continue to guide you and bless you, ameen.
Jazakalah khair for your great questions,
Salam Alaykum,
Your brother in Islam,
Sheik Yusuf Estes,
National Chaplain, (and 'Good Old Boy from Texas')
WAMY World Assembly of Muslim Youth
http://www.wamyusa.org
http://www.TodayIslam.com
Copies to:
WAMY
C.A.I.R. (Council on American International Relations)
M.S.A. (Muslim Student Association)
World Muslim League
American Muslim Council
Dar ul Arqam
Dar ul Hijjrah
National Association of Muslim Chaplains
South Carolina Dept. Corrections/ Islamic Affairs Dept.
North Carolina Dept. Corrections/ Rocky Mount Unit
Federal Bureau of Prisons, Muslim Chaplains Unit
Islamic Associations International
Muslim Chaplains Org